Big Turbo / High Horsepower Discussion [Archive]

225tt

07-01-2009, 01:36 PM

Ok so instead of posting a bunch of small threads here is one for all items regarding big turbo and high horsepower info. Please search all options first and if you cant find your answer post it up here and maybe some of the experts can help you out.

The first question that I would like to ask is:

When rebuilding my motor to 2.0L what main bearings would I want to use for a high hp build. I have found the calico coated ones that are +.001 im guessing or will the OEM ones do just fine for lets say 400-500awhp?

Cincy

07-01-2009, 01:42 PM

mine are stock, but the coated ones are deff better since they wont wear as easy. Both will work.

l88m22vette

07-01-2009, 05:17 PM

I vote the better bearings, it seems like fried bearings are the cause of a good chunk of BT problems...

Cincy

07-01-2009, 07:00 PM

Improper fitment/install is what kills bearings, not them failing. They are just metal slivers

KrissrocK

07-01-2009, 08:34 PM

where r the bearings?

Cincy

07-01-2009, 09:25 PM

They go on the rods and main caps, both go around the crank journals. Rod bearings are what are being discussed here and they go inside the rod cap (large end) that attaches to the crank. If the wrong ones are install or incorrectly installed, you can/will have a "spun" bearing which means it is all chewed up and can damage the crank.

225tt

07-01-2009, 10:53 PM

I was talking about both of the bearings, but good info to know for both. Think ill opt for the better ones.

Adam@unitronic.ca

07-02-2009, 10:33 AM

Stock bearings here. You and your engine won't notice a difference.

KrissrocK

07-02-2009, 02:00 PM

ohhhh ok. the "U" shaped things that get bolted on and hold the connecting rods to the crank and hold down the crank journals...Gotcha. Thanks for not flamin' me.

and when u say "main" bearings, that really the journal bearings right?

and how can the "wrong" ones be installed? too tight, too loose? wrong direction?
They are directional right?

Cincy

07-02-2009, 04:01 PM

journal bearings are what old/stock turbos use. Journals are just the shiny part of the crank.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b99/infinityman/pistons12.jpg

Calico coated main bearings

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b99/infinityman/assembly19.jpg

Mains (well 1.8t billet ones)

http://www.034motorsport.com/images/Main_Caps_1.jpg

mains installed minus bolts

http://www.krautfed.com/dizzy/stroker%20build%20upload/center%20main%20cap%20installed.jpg

The wrong size bearings for the wear of the motor, improper installed, or tang vs tangless installed in place of each other

225tt

07-03-2009, 05:59 AM

Stock bearings here. You and your engine won't notice a difference.

Awesome good to know, I think its really a toss up between the two and its just added safety. I can see if putting big numbers down is the goal, but it seems now a day 450whp is the norm for big turbo setups.

225tt

07-03-2009, 12:59 PM

New subject, found a really good deal on a Precision SC 34 turbo. Anyone have any idea about this? I know that its cheep so im guessing its journal bearing. Any other thoughts?

Cincy

07-03-2009, 04:05 PM

50trim with PTE housings

225tt

07-03-2009, 11:12 PM

Ahh ok too small!

Cincy

07-03-2009, 11:15 PM

Sorry, its a 57trim with PTE housings. The 50trim is the SC50... i know, confusing. The SC32 is a 54trim and SC44 is a 60trim

225tt

07-03-2009, 11:20 PM

Ok...and yes still confusing, think im gona stick with a s258 with a larger a/r. Hell who knows like you said there are so many options.

crazyeight

07-07-2009, 04:39 AM

Cincy

07-07-2009, 09:07 AM

Thats a gt35r with a old style stg5 turbine wheel instead of a gt turbine wheel (Precision SC61). Cost is basically the same. And if its $1300, its a dbb, not journal, a journal wouldnt be more than $800 for the SC61.

exTTreme

07-07-2009, 11:56 AM

The coated bearings with higher clearences are really worth the money if you intend to actually use the power your engine is making on a regular basis. I've built a few motors and the first SB chevy 350 I built is still running after 8 years 15k miles and more passes down the drag strip then I can count while the second engine I built also a SB 350 had the first set of bearings replaced after the first year because they were already looking worn when it was pulled apart.

As for 1.8T content the calico ones are very nice quality and when compared side by side to the 034 motorsports coated bearings you can tell the difference in quality if your going to spend the extra money for coated bearings go with the calico ones.

225tt

07-08-2009, 04:15 AM

hi,
ive found a genuine new garrett unit on ebay

Turbo, Journal Bearing Garrett T3/T4 T350 with 61mm compressor wheel, comes as standard with T04S 4" inlet and 2.5" outlet, as pictured above. Stage 5 Turbine wheel with T31 4 bolt exhaust housing. Oil Cooled Only - NOT Water cooled. Uses T3/4 oil feed flange and drain flange.

Excellent 600 HP Turbo.

Compressor
61mm inducer and 82mm exducer

Turbine
Stage 5 T350
T3 4 - Bolt 0.63 or 0.82

it costs 1300$

would that be a good investment ?

I think that would be a great turbo, price is about right, if its DBB but probably would want a 2.0L to help spool that big of turbo or else you will be living with alot of lag.

Another questions when is the Bosch 044 fuel pump needed, or when does the Walbro fuel pump start to work overtime. And when are larger fuel lines needed? I found a site that sells 044's for about 170 which from what I have found is a good deal, just better to upgrade and call it safe?

Cincy

07-08-2009, 08:46 AM

The walbro is a 500hp pump, the 044 is a 600hp pump. Think the switch from the gt30 to 35r would be the time to concider the switch also. The more time you plan to spend around 500whp, the more you want the 044. Not sure on the lines, but i would guess about the same time, same goes for a surge tank. All are which really start adding up in cost fast

225tt

07-08-2009, 09:06 AM

It seems like 500whp or awhp is going to be the limit for my build, then more and more stuff starts to come into effect with wear on tranny, axles, internals, all that stuff. I hope to stick around 400-450awhp with my current build, and hope that I built it strong enought. I figure that should give a 225Q Roadster about a low 11 sec pass in the 1/4? That is my goal...I hope.

Cincy

07-08-2009, 11:08 AM

Depends on skill, tires, and if you something like a wot box or not

crazyeight

07-08-2009, 01:02 PM

what s hp max of the oem pump ?

225tt

07-08-2009, 02:30 PM

Dont think that may people have found it out, when you switch turbos out, and go with bigger injectors then its time to upgrade the fuel pump. If I were to put a number on it, I would say that when you hit 300whp it is time to upgrade your pump (of course you will be going to a bigger turbo as well). Remember always better to upgrade before you find that limit of the OEM one.

Cincy

07-08-2009, 02:36 PM

180 is about maxed with 260-270whp
225 has put out over the 350whp range. I still would drop the $100 for an inline walbro when moving to a larger turbo just for peice of mind

225tt

07-15-2009, 11:05 AM

Ok another questions, found a (2005) 80mm Dodge Hemi 5.7L Throttle Body for cheep, does the connector from our car just plug in or will there have to be some moddifying? Anyone have any idea?

Cincy

07-15-2009, 11:09 AM

I believe its a direct swap. Only connector i have seen is an extension for those going from passenger to driver side manifolds.

225tt

07-15-2009, 11:15 AM

Ok I read somewhere that they moddified it (but it may have been the extension like your saying), but I didnt know what exactly it was for, if nothing else im sure I can just swap the one from ours over or get a connector off a junked hemi and wire it in. Thanks!

In case anyone is wondering what the difference is:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q277/ethorman/Other/Build/l_a96029ab2b954e73baba9f8f74c2de76.jpg

225tt

08-05-2009, 01:18 PM

Back to some BT questions. So I plan to hit 450awhp with large port head, probably only reving to 7.5k, but with the cams, my question is. I was thinking of the cat 3653 or 3651 but in looking around I found the shrick camshafts have a similar lift but are alittle cheeper. Anyone have any thoughts or ideas?

Cincy

08-05-2009, 01:36 PM

I found in a search about the TB you have to file the connector (forget which side) to make them fit together (im sure when seen together its obvious). The extension is for going from passenger side to drivers side throttle body.

What about duration on the cams? That plays a huge part. Not many people use any other cams, Eurospec makes a couple grinds also and are a few hundred less than cats cast cams. Best if you find out what all the shricks have and compare them to the cats

225tt

08-05-2009, 02:50 PM

Cat Cams 3653
Duration 0.1mm 239 / 245°
Duration 1.0mm 214 / 220°
Max Lift 8.80 / 10.85mm
Lift TDC 0.70 / 1.20mm

Cat Cams 3651
Duration 0.1mm 245 / 262°
Duration 1.0mm 207 / 217°
Max Lift 8.25 / 9.95mm
Lift TDC 0.30 / 0.95mm

Eurospec Cams 268/260
Intake Duration 268
Exhaust Duration 260
Lift TDC .358/.410
(Max Lift)--who knows?

There is not as much info on the Eurospec Cams and all I am wondering is the cat cams have huge lift at tdc on the exhaust side compared to the eurospec cams.

KrissrocK

08-05-2009, 03:33 PM

woah woah...how does that big asz throttle body hook up to our manifolds? is there some kind of adapter plate as well?

Cincy

08-05-2009, 04:02 PM

They attach to an aftermarket manifold. APR uses a R32 75mm TB and the SEM can use a Hemi 80mm TB. They use larger pleniums so it helps fill them far faster than a stock TB

Audiguy84

08-05-2009, 05:43 PM

ya that's what I'm running. mine plugged right in.

225tt

08-09-2009, 05:14 PM

Ok so hear me out on this, I have a friend who has a Holset H1E turbo that he was able to wheel and deal for free. He is willing to give it to me for free. Here are the specs on it

H1E
Compressor inducer: 58.05mm
Compressor exducer: 81.57mm

GT4082R
Compressor inducer: 58mm
Compressor exducer: 82mm

BW S362
Compressor inducer: 62mm
Compressor exducer: 80.6mm

BW S258
Compressor inducer: 58mm
Compressor exducer: 80mm

Compared to a GT40r, now I know that on a 2.0L it is going to be a little laggy, but with 10:1 compression it will help with spool, and I have heard that you can switch out the exhaust side housings to help with that as well. My question is....does anyone know anything more about this thing any thoughs or opinions? Here are a couple of links.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1253159
http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190612
http://www.dieselbombers.com/5-9l-rotary-bombs-aftermarket/15011-h1c-h1e-hybrid-lets-call-h1d.html

Cincy

08-09-2009, 06:17 PM

Everything will need to be custom. Getting the turbine outlet can be difficult and if you dont have a T3 inlet, makes it hard. Not to mention it will most likely need to be a topmount cause its has large housings

225tt

08-09-2009, 11:48 PM

I was already planning on going with the Kinetic Top Mounted mani, I am just wondering how the spool will be? I dont want it to be a huge dog.

Cincy

08-10-2009, 10:40 AM

Depends on the housing.

6 cm2 = 0.41 A/R
7 cm2 = 0.49 A/R
8 cm2 = 0.57 A/R
9 cm2 = 0.65 A/R
10 cm2 = 0.73 A/R
11 cm2 = 0.81 A/R
12 cm2 = 0.89 A/R
14 cm2 = 0.97 A/R
15 cm2 = 1.05 A/R
16 cm2 = 1.13 A/R
17 cm2 = 1.29 A/R
19 cm2 = 1.37 A/R

THe hy35 comes with a 9cm^ and will spool up reasonably but dies out quickly since the housing is to small. The hx35 12cm^ is a better match, but for a 35r sized turbo, lags a plenty. As you have noticed, the HE1 is larger which will have more lag. You wont be seeing much before 5k with the that engine setup.

dyno of the 1.8 with the hy35 with a 9cm housing 22psi pump
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/bigtoy302/IMG_0003.jpg

I think the lag will be close to the 60-1, or slightly worse

Setup:

MK2 GTI
AEB 2.0 20v
Cat 3652 cams
T3/60-1 Turbo Stage 3 .63 ar
Racecraft Intake Manifold
"1036 Motorsports" Turbo Manifold
Air-to-Air Intercooler
Full 3" exhaust
A1000 fuel pump
Lugtronic supplied Injector Dynamics 880cc Injectors
Lugtronic Wire-In ECU with 4 bar MAP sensor, Wideband, EGT.
Stock AEB coilpacks and sensors

http://www.vems.hu/files/KevinBlack/Ben512whp.jpg

225tt

08-10-2009, 11:04 AM

Thanks Nate for the CM to a/r conversion, I found out that the turbo has the 18cm^2 housing on it right now but I can also get a T3 flanged 12cm non divided housing for it, which should help spool it a bit faster. The Hy35 like you said has a 9mm housing but it will hurt me up top, I think that with the money I saved I will just build up the head for 8.5K and cat 3652 cams. The 10:1 comp will help me out down low and then I can just boost all the way up. The Holset turbos the old H1C is the new HX35 and the HX40 is the newer version of the H1E, nice thing is that all the housings and wheels are interchangable so you can kinda play with everything to get it where you want.

225tt

08-10-2009, 02:08 PM

So I talked to the Techs at Bullseye and they told me that their .70 a/r T3 flanged housing V-Banded outlet will work for me, I think that will be nice and help the spool. The H1E has a larger 8 blade compressor than the hy35. My guess is that it is going to be very similar to a BW S258-S362. Somewhere in that area, should be a good turbo, only thing I have to do is order the turbine housing.

From the DSM forums:

HX40:
The 8blade hx40 has a 58mm inducer and flows about the same as a 60-1 (around 60lb/min) with ALOT better high boost efficiency and spool speed.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/274459-holset-turbos-part-3-a.html

Compressor Map
http://loudmouth-z.xanga.com/610064251/item/

Pics of the housing....
http://www.bullseye-power.com/images/turbopics/S362%20338outlet.JPG

Cincy

08-10-2009, 04:32 PM

If they claim 4100rpms on the (guessing) .55 housing on the HX40 with big cams, the 2.0 should spool close to the same if not a couple rpms faster

225tt

08-10-2009, 04:50 PM

So spool with the .70 a/r on a 2.0L (9.5:1 to 10:1 comp) should be around 4.5K, that would be a nice powerband up to 8-8.5K. And the high comp can keep it great for daily driving around town. Hmm choices, hell why not try it, its only 200 bucks for the turbine housing what is there to lose?