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View Full Version : MBC guide, what works


Cincy
01-28-2009, 09:27 PM
Since there is so many questions and misinformation that keeps getting posted about mbc's on the forums, i thought it would be nice to have actual information posted that people can refer to and get all their questions answered.

To start, there is 2 main types of mbc's, the bleed valve and the ball/spring.

BALL/SPRING.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c310/SkyeMaloney/step61.jpg

As you can see in the pic, it is a VERY simple device and can be made with simple parts found at the home improvement store.

SO HOW DOES IT WORK? The boost pressure comes into the mbc from the bottom where the ball is set to restrict the flow to the wastegate. The spring tension set by both the spring and the knob will determine how much force (psi) it takes to push the ball up high enough for the pressure to reach the wastegate and then open the flapper/valve to bleed off excess exhaust gas to regulate the psi.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f5/brute_nm/mbc1-1.jpg

By changing springs with different spring tension, you can change the amount of psi the mbc can hold and allow the turbo to run. For example, a softer spring can go 5-25psi and a stiffer spring will go 15-35psi (just an example).

The ball inside can also make a difference. A stainless ball that comes standard in most mbc works well and reacts slower than a ceramic ball that is an optional upgrade on some mbc's. This helps decrease lag.

BENIFITS AND WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR? This type of mbc is a great for larger turbos that have some actual lag. The reason being the wastegate sees no pressure and remains closed until the psi set from the mbc is reached resulting in a decrease in lag by a couple hundred rpms and also slower psi drop off in higher rpms. NOT GREAT ON STOCK TURBOS

BLEED/GATED VALVE

http://www.boostvalve.com/images/bleedflow.jpg

HOW DOES IT WORK?As you can see in this pic, the bleed doesnt ever fully close and constantly bleeds off psi. You restict the airflow, the psi increases and increase the flow, the psi drops. This allows some pressure to reach the wastegate allowing it to open a small amount to help regulate psi.

BENIFITS AND WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR? Since the mbc constantly bleeds off psi and allows some pressure to reach the wastegate, it helps smooth out the boost onset and smoother boost. This type of mbc is HIGHLY recommend for a small turbo like those found stock in our cars. These result in a lot less of the common "on/off" feeling that mainly claim with the ball/spring mbc.

COMBO MBC
You can find some mbc's that have both a bleed and ball/spring together. The most common one is the turboxs hpbc. This is a great mbc type that can adjust psi all the way up to 30psi over wastegate pressure and still manage to smooth out boost for a small turbo and hold psi longer. Deff worth the investment since it works well with both small and large turbos.

WHAT ABOUT DIFFERENT N75's

The one true drawback of a n75 is that you cant decide what psi you wish to run or that it will work with your chip tune. Not to mention they cost just as much as most major mbc brands and dont hold psi any better than the stock version.

l88m22vette
01-28-2009, 11:04 PM
Just for some added info, I had swapped an N75K valve on back in the summer, and it definetly helped midrange and improved the overall feel of my stock-tune 225. I do have a turboback and TIP, and although the K was a nice addition, my mileage decreased and something never felt quite right about it (like it was missing something, whatever that means). From what I understand the K has a higher sampling rate than the stock F valve which did decrease spike (which was good), but the K is from the 1990s 5cyl RS2, so maybe what I felt as "off" was because that the K was designed for a turbo-5cyl instead of our turbo 4-bangers. All in all it was a fun experiment, but since the K costs $100+ just spend the money on an MBC/EBC, diode, or tune, since in the end the money will go to a far better cause; any N-valve swapping is ultimately useless...

Murderface
01-28-2009, 11:13 PM
Man I was working on this kind of writeup lol you spelled it out pretty clearly here.

Cincy
01-28-2009, 11:20 PM
Ive been meaning to do this for some time now. I just finally took the time to put it down since im sick of repeating myself on the forums. Linking is SOOOOOO much easier and less frustrating.

Murderface
01-29-2009, 01:08 AM
I just finally took the time to put it down since im sick of repeating myself on the forums. Linking is SOOOOOO much easier and less frustrating.

Whole reason I created the resource in my sig right there lol.

A4speed
01-29-2009, 03:12 AM
love the info!

Irish*TT*
01-30-2009, 09:24 AM
Thanx for all the info! Just one more thing... Do MBC add HP/TQ to a stock 1.8. (Without a diode)

Cincy
01-30-2009, 09:53 AM
The diode just changes what the ecu sees voltage wise.

A mbc wont really increase tq, but will hold peak tq longer which will increase the powerband resulting in more hp by a small margin

Irish*TT*
01-30-2009, 09:59 AM
After about 5grand my power band flattens out. Tonight ill take a picture of my LTT dyno. My tq keeps going up but the hp flattens out!

Cincy
01-30-2009, 10:08 AM
The tq actually drops off at about 4k and then hp at about 5.5k

Warranty
02-14-2009, 12:37 PM
These motors don't have much by way of hp/tq at higher Rpms. Power band is much lower in the revs. Will the MBC give me a noticeable difference in my power band? And if so, by how much(obviously a guestimate).

Warranty
02-14-2009, 12:41 PM
Oh, and the only thing keeping me from buying an MBC is the uncertanty when it comes to dialing it in. Any good rules of thumb in regards to tuning an MBC? I've heard of people actualy giving up on an MBC tune because they couldn't get it right.. What gives?

Cincy
02-14-2009, 12:57 PM
By holding psi longer and tapering off slower, you will have a longer and more useable powerband.

People have issues because they either arent using the correct style mbc or just not setting it up correctly to start with. My hpbc has been on a few cars now and i never had a problem with it once. Takes me 5mins to reset the mbc and tune it (doing pulls, pull over, tune, drive again) each time i install it on a different car.

Warranty
02-14-2009, 02:23 PM
Ok, I was talking to jhpsoccer(think that's his name) on AF about buying his. I remembered him having a hard time tuning it. I guess he gave up.

crazyeight
05-20-2009, 11:16 AM
what about something like that

http://cgi.ebay.fr/NEW-Gizzmo-IBC-Electronic-Boost-Controller-Ltd-Edition_W0QQitemZ370202379350QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK _CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item370202379 350&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1526|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HKS-EVC-Electronic-Boost-Controller_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a2Q7c65 Q3a2Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a1Q7c2 94Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem180354 636154QQitemZ180354636154QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruck Q5fPartsQ5fAccessories

does it open as fast and does it prevent overboosting and spikes ?

Cincy
05-20-2009, 12:43 PM
the gizzmo one is suppose to be pretty nice of the price. These being ebc's makes them much more tunable than a mbc. Much easier to elimnate spiking and should reduce the psi to drop off as fast than with a mbc.

gameover2145
05-21-2009, 10:22 PM
So the N75 valve can be removed without the car throwing a CEL? How does the Modshack Boost Machine compare with the TurboXS HPBC?

Cincy
05-21-2009, 11:23 PM
You dont remove it, you just remove the vac lines going to the n75. The BM is basically the same concept, just much larger, you have to run vac lines, use both n75 and BM and more expensive.

Warranty
05-21-2009, 11:37 PM
I'm getting ready to do the turboxs hpbc. Cincy, think you could add a hpbc DIY for us/me? Please include adjustments.

Cincy
05-22-2009, 09:08 AM
Not much really needed besides reading the directions that come with it. I have the older blue one that uses the allen to adjust both bleed and b&s so adjusting it wont be the same.

Basically setup the mbc like the directions say, adjust till the ball doesnt make any noise and the bleed slightly open. Then remove the lines from the n75 and install them on the hpbc. The line from the charge pipe goes to the side brass port on the hpbc and the line to the wastegate goes to the bottom. Its the reverse of the basic ball and spring shown in post 1. From there, adjust both till you get the psi you want with a balance of both adjustments

Warranty
05-22-2009, 11:41 AM
I'll try it. I wonder how noticeable the change will be.