Operation make it fit.....

[Storx]

I got relocated with the military right in the middle of acquiring parts and getting stuff together for a BT conversion... Well i had one of my turbos from my house in NC mail to me in Florida were im doing training for the military at.. and i played around with it today...

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/24/l_6f819a1722d04991a9d7c81c777ade1c.jpg
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/10/l_f935330225684b07b981e4ab7f0998be.jpg
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/5/l_8c93ee4ef36940aeb47069b8fccad809.jpg
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/26/l_fac73aeb6b3947f1bdc4b81f8f2c9fd9.jpg

[Storx]

more pics...
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/27/l_823f1f61a9c341869acb05dc7be9f5f6.jpg
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/25/l_47f86d169cf84fabaf860a6a96f02b32.jpg
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/24/l_a2889b5bf6b34947b232b71552a354b5.jpg
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/10/l_e5d235d446444a549e29751960aa6aab.jpg
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/18/l_e44ab71c3bf44896b7cecbc869ebe86d.jpg


Modified by storx at 11:35 PM 3-7-2009

[Storx]

more pics...
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/30/l_567fdc72de6c4fa98a1ab4aee12faba6.jpg
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/4/l_009b9defe50a475ea7208821559944b7.jpg
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/29/l_2d61a7e12c3949789a9bf662132aabba.jpg
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/28/l_90f05ffe60db41278444ce087f755a3f.jpg
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/21/l_d7bb52e6c77c460aba533067fd4c5dd0.jpg
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/15/l_2cb46888beca48ce80c27561be761d4e.jpg


Modified by storx at 11:39 PM 3-7-2009

[Storx]

more pics..
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/6/l_9ef5f193df84418f9a8bce69cd144709.jpg
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/12/l_5b46afc91f2443caa84b7e2a6d8ee08b.jpg
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/31/l_efc50274c8d84180ae8aacc75fe9a46e.jpg
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/22/l_7f0a71ba63bb4708a57bc1911ecfe44e.jpg


Modified by storx at 11:42 PM 3-7-2009

[Storx]

more pics
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/21/l_07b6a88e692a4163bed0b0863376f8bb.jpg
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/25/l_a552e134e3594d62a0d345e561dbed1c.jpg
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/5/l_3883040dc481420d89df13da545ffe00.jpg
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/21/l_e70bca0aaeb2475ab7923180990c78c3.jpg
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/27/l_5a23a4bbdf0f40928f9e9cc53e4a839c.jpg


Modified by storx at 11:45 PM 3-7-2009

[Storx]

more pics
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/18/l_21926943982c43b9936176851170e0b9.jpg
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/32/l_e701e3675452493bb3fbb23a1a7fcbfa.jpg
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/31/l_638dc1ab118b4923b8cacc6bad9bf0b6.jpg
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/4/l_4a84c04e803848dfa942d3ebf3db51dd.jpg


Modified by storx at 12:01 AM 3-8-2009

[Cincy]

you may want to ceremic coat that housing and move those lines. Be worried they could catch on fire with the turbine that close

[Storx]

well i thought about those hoses also.. but they are the coolant lines going to the heater core.. and basicly the zig-zag all over the engine bay to bypass a bunch of crap like the intake pipe and what not.. if you look at some of the builds on vortex people take those snake hoses off and run them off to the right away from the turbo and then heat cover them... but i will also wrap the downpipe and the turbo exhuast housing to keep the heat off things as much as possible.. i dont think it will be a big deal since at one point those lines run nearly on the block under the SAI and the block isnt exactly cold....

[myslow1]

holy big turbo batman

[Warranty]

I would def say ceramic coat. wrap is Doo-Doo

[myslow1]

wrap is Doo-Doo

I disagree w/ you 100%

i would get a turbo blanket

[Cincy]

i dont even know if anyone makes on that big, sadly.

[myslow1]

i dont even know if anyone makes on that big, sadly.

buy two big ones and tape them together :rolleyes:

[Cincy]

there is some woven material that he may be able to use. Ill have to find it again on evolutionm. It may work

[myslow1]

The make them big enough... they have them up to a gt60 on this website
http://www.forcedinductions.com/product7.htm

[Warranty]

I disagree w/ you 100%

i would get a turbo blanket

wrap holds in moisture=premature rust. Whats to disagree about?

[myslow1]

wrap holds in moisture=premature rust. Whats to disagree about?

the fact that it isnt true. I had my headers on my tiburon wrapped for over two years and didnt have a problem.

[Cincy]

should be fine with stainless, aluminized i wouldnt wrap

[WishIWasRWD]

Does that touch the firewall when mounted? :eek:

[Storx]

well im not exactly sure what im going to do about wrapping it yet.. was thinking of wrapping it with thermo wrap fromt he exhaust housing back cause i dont wanna make the CHRA overheat itself...
Also i think i might run the turbo just slightly more to the driverside since the connections on the firewall that look vulnerable can be replaced with metal couplings and run a sheat shielded higher temp hose from it... but i shouldnt even have to worry about it cause i think the turbo will mount slightly lower in the engine bay.. in the pics i was trying to line up the mounting sections aligned with the top of the exhaust outlets to get an idea of the space... i was thinking of mounting it about an inch lower if room on manifold permits and knock in the firewall slightly to make a small gap between the turbo and firewall.. so the heat wrap can fit... Im not really worried about the firewall cause there is nothing behind it that is really important to damage if i bang it in about an inch.. except the heater core.. and even that is able to be moved with the wall...since it mounts on the firewall...

Im know someone is going to say.. but what about the valve cover wont the exhaust melt it..... well what about it.. cause the engine blows that same air throw the head... i dont know how many people on vortex asked me able melting the cylinder head running the turbo that close to it...

[Cincy]

wait, you are telling me that what the engine produces temp wise WONT kill it??? :lol:

[Warranty]

You should mount it with a big hood scoop. Like a top fuel dragster LOL.

[Storx]

talked to a diesel turbo shop today...i might have a shop interested in maching a slightly smaller exhaust housing for me to fit on the turbo.. they told me they would call me in the next few days on if they can make it work or not.. there going to experiment with a few housing they have cause im not the first requesting it.. and there willing to try a few things out...
They explained to me today that the turbo specs are...
HE351ve:
Compressor
Exducer: 86.7mm
Inducer: 66.7mm
14 blades

Turbine
Inducer: 70mm
Exducer: 60mm
12 blades.
exhaust housing adjustable from:
3.5cm2 to 25.8cm2

They told me that the following turbos in COMMON NORMAL form are as follow:
GT45r: 28.8cm2
GT42r: 22.0cm2
GT35r: 16.8cm2
GT30r: 14.3cm2
K04: 5.7cm2
K03s: 5.1cm2
K03: 3.3cm2

so if.. based on those numbers they told me that my idea of this build should in theory work very well on a perfect fuel/ignition map...
From what i got off these numbers is the housing in its smallest size flows just a spit more then a normal stock K03..... but in its largest point flows more then a GT42r....

[Storx]

wait, you are telling me that what the engine produces temp wise WONT kill it??? :lol:

you should know better...

[l88m22vette]

Thats my big question, how are you going to insulate that thing? Its the size of a Thanksgiving turkey!

[Cincy]

If you can get it to fit in the HX40 T3 housing and make it work, you better have a handful of these for sale before you post that it works. Im sure there are several people that would love to get their hands on one. Me being one of them, but i would need an A4 to use it :(

[Storx]

the guy at the turbo shop said its max flow is 1102 (something forget the measurement) according to there book... and if our head could flow all that properly it be easly over 1k.. cause it only requires 900 he said to break 1khp on a perfectly tuned and ported engine..

[Storx]

If you can get it to fit in the HX40 T3 housing and make it work, you better have a handful of these for sale before you post that it works. Im sure there are several people that would love to get their hands on one. Me being one of them, but i would need an A4 to use it :(

well. i wouldnt mind making a little off the finished project if it does work.. but im not really in this to make a buck... im in this project to make a point and proove that it will work.. cause every turbo builder ive spoken to said it would be a insanely nice setup.. and every calculator i can come across on the internet that estimates my spoolup based on engine size and cm2 value.. shows that if i had it set at 3.5cm2.. my max constant flow is 15.6psi@2270rpms.. and then if i put in the value of 6.6cm2 it says my max constant flow is 25.2psi@3100rpms...

so in a perfect world my ultimate spoolup would be to hold it closed tell around 15psi then start opening it up from there.....so i was thinking of running a POT resister and adjust it were 15psi equals 0volts on the servo motor input.. so 16psi would start at 0.8volts and from there it would slowly open the vgt slidevein as pressure comes on...

[l88m22vette]

This has a lot of potential, AND you have a lot of people's attention storx...man I hope this works...

[Cincy]

pretty sure it was 1102 cfm. Deff puts it in the larger of the gt42's, guessing a 106mm wheel. Im just hoping you try to control the psi to where you dont have a massive tq spike and snap rods on a new motor

[Warranty]

^that's what I would be afraid of

[Storx]

im going to run a decent size wastegate.. the only thing im not sure on is DV if i will have an large enough one for it....

[Cincy]

the dv will depend on flow. 400hp is 400hp, the amount of air doesnt change, just the pressure to make it. Evo guys still use stock 34mm valves for 400+ awhp, if you go with a 50mm valve (tial or forge supersize), you shouldnt have any problems. I would be more worried about forking out the funds for a 44mm or larger wastegate

[Storx]

i looked into wastegates and the 7 second evo that runs 1800hp in the castrol challenge ran a 38mm tial wastegate.. so i think i should be fine there..

[Cincy]

Keep in mind, that a wastegate bleeds off excess exhaust flow. The more psi you run, the less wasted exhaust flow there is. If you run a 35r at 7psi and try to run a 38mm, you will get massive boost creep compared to running it at 25psi. There is so much flow that needs bleed off and if it cant flow enough, the exh flow keeps spinning the turbine wheel and making boost

[Storx]

im going to play aroudn this weekend and see if there is any room to run it bottom mount just to see if it could.. cause the area gets wider as i get furter down the firewall...

[Warranty]

Are there any high temp coatings that you could spray the housing of the turbo to help keep it cool. I would imagine that someone makes something that would do well in that application.

[l88m22vette]

www.swaintech.com :D

[Storx]

well talked to ADAM.. (THE MAN).. and he is building my stroker engine.. ima try to run up his way this weekend to drop off the crank and turbo.. so he can send the crank off and get it machined and have the block assembled and ready for me.. also he is going to have the turbo downpipe fabed up for me.. since him and myself are pretty sure we can make it fit bottom mounted... and he has his wrecked TT to play around with for pipework...
Engine Details we worked out tonight...

Head:
AWP (going to pull 2 off this weekend at U-Pull it yard)
Port Matched and possibly valve angle cut...

Block:
AMU
99.5mm BRM forged crank
83.0mm Wiseco Pistons 10:1
IE 21mm rods

Intake:
Ross Intake Manifold.... 8 injector bungs...
1200cc Injectors...

Software...
Uni 1200cc Mafless....

[Cincy]

So now how are you going to do the bottom mount? Same idea as before with the top mount?

[l88m22vette]

Why no AEB? It almost seems like a necessity with this set-up...good call on the bottom-mount, definitely makes more sense...

[Storx]

So now how are you going to do the bottom mount? Same idea as before with the top mount?

Adam has something up his sleeve.. he said with the GT35r.. there is still alot of room to spare.. so ima bring my turbo up there and we are going to mess around with it and figure out something.. if not we are gonna try every possible way before go back to top mount...

[Storx]

Why no AEB? It almost seems like a necessity with this set-up...good call on the bottom-mount, definitely makes more sense...

Well i have been looking for one.. but jeese if there not gold right now.. i have called every single listing on Car-parts.com for them.. and they want an arm and legg for them.. one junkyard.. had the nerve to say 900.00 for it with bent valves.. and then asked why is he getting calls everyday on it.. but his listing on the site says please call for the price...

I have contacted everyone that sells them on vortex.. and they sell for high dollar before the end of 12 hours going by.. its just rediculas..
There is a U-Pull it yard local.. well about 20 mins away that i went to last weekend to check for wideband 02 sensor harness but they both were missing that section of the harness aswell the ecu.. go figure.. but both had there cylinder head...
one had 23k on the engine and the other has 61k...
Ima wait tell saturday cause they have there u-pull it day that day so you can go in and pull anything as long as you can carry it out the first time for 50.00... so ima go in with minimum tools pull one or both heads and take them home...
Ima rock one of them or even my stocker for a little bit tell everyone stops thinking AEB heads are diamonds.. sorry but im not willing to pay 400.00 for a used head with bent valves.. or with nothing in it..... either way i still have to upgrade the head with new valves.. so either way if i get internals or not.. still not paying more then 200-250.00

[Storx]

infinity.. rocks stocket head but gasket ported and upgraded valves.. and popped out 400whp on just a gt30...
im told with a good 100-200 dollar port/polish job it will flow nearly the same as a AEB head.. and also been told that the awp and aww heads have much better flow cause the head flows more even among all ports compared to AEB and that sometimes offers more power increase then just pure flow alone.. so if i can increase the flow slightly with port/polish myself... with a dremmel or what not then i could be happy with that..

[Cincy]

The AEB has larger ports throughout the intake passage. You cant make the small port that size without welding. The small port has a lip that is suppose to increase velocity which helps make up for the loss of flow. By opening up the ports, you can increase the flow some and will still have the added velocity lip

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp46/cincyTT/AEBvsAWP.jpg

[Storx]

ya.. but i can make it work for the time being.. and probably still pull off 500+awhp...tell the price of diamonds come down hehe...

[Cincy]

My thinking is, since B made 400whp on ~23psi on a stock ported head and custom intake manifold, it should be very comparable to a full AEB. You trade off volume for velocity. A quality port job of the intake ports and a 3-5 angle valve job is plenty of flow for 600whp+.

Obviously take into account that im not a mech engineer, just taking the info given and applying them.

[Storx]

well i talked to some of the machine shops around here.. and one of them said i can glass flow the head.. basicly they shoot pressurized glass beads through the head and it will smooth out the angle the air would normally take.. they quoted me a pretty good price for it so if i get the heads this weekend i might take one to them and see what kind of difference they think they can make on it...they wanna see the head before they can accept the job..

[l88m22vette]

Extrude hone? Same thing.

Hell, I wanna put an AEB on my 225 just to see what happens lol.

[Cincy]

^ same thing.

Im not sure how much that will remove unless they run it for a long time. That would be more of a final step in the process.

[l88m22vette]

^ same thing.

Do you mean my AEB idea is stupid? Oh wait, we talked about this two years ago, its stupid :tongue: :001_rolleyes:

[Cincy]

You lost me. I was only talking about the hone.

[l88m22vette]

Sorry, misunderstood :blush:

[Storx]

just some pics joking around in the garage last night comparing it to my friends GT28r that we are going to install this week in place of his leaking K04....
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/26/l_8e692c512367496baafb638a6a009557.jpg
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/38/l_a1544bae05614772af3387d12f862714.jpg
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/40/l_f084fb59d24a4348b5c39eb2c55eb851.jpg
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/22/l_fef3c245b9e4497b92020f8bed47275e.jpg
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/47/l_7d37d8075bb54ddfb2949b5ec239f03a.jpg
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/34/l_de09d36c683449199ff62f0fe2cac129.jpg